Tony72495
Member
- Apr 26, 2019
- 1,116
- Oct 18, 2024
- #1
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B9ZxwFQ0qY
The video makes an important distinction here. Visual novels based around dating are absolutely still a thing. Japanese dating sims in the 90's though would almost be more akin to something like The Sims, but whereas in The Sims you can basically make your own story, in a dating sim the developer has a specific story in mind for you, like being in a high school romance, but gives you many options and stats that you can raise through gameplay mechanics, and some dating sims indeed look more like spreadsheet simulators of stats than they do the visual novels of today, more Euro Truck Simulator than Doki Doki Literature Club if you will.
One very popular series in Japan was the Tokimeki Memorial series published by Konami, that is until the release of Tokimeki Memorial 3 on PlayStation 2 in 2001 which kind of to an extent killed interest in the genre entirely, though the IP is still limping along in some fashion even today.
The Awesomest
Member
- Mar 3, 2018
- 1,421
- Oct 18, 2024
- #2
I watched that whole thing. I appreciated how he tied that in to bigger budgets reducing the amount of risks and creativity seen outside of indies.
Modest_Modsoul
Living the Dreams
Member
- Oct 29, 2017
- 26,039
- Oct 18, 2024
- #3
I haven't played it, but I understand where Tokimeki Memorial 3 kinda almost (?) killed the series...
After the amazing sequel which was Tokimeki Memorial 2 on PS1, where KONAMI pull all the stops to improve & evolve the IP, 3 was downgrade... : /
Mechaplum
Enlightened
Member
- Oct 26, 2017
- 19,767
- JP
- Oct 18, 2024
- #4
I thought love plus and co were very popular?
LordHuffnPuff
Doctor Videogames at Allfather Productions
Verified
- Oct 25, 2017
- 2,744
- webernet
- Oct 19, 2024
- #5
Mechaplum said:
Loveplus was a huge continuing success that certainly gives the lie to the text of the OP, but maybe the video itself is less hyperbolic.
Also, Amagami was nearly a decade after Tokimemo 3 and considered a stone-cold classic…
The better argument is that the highly systemic stat-based style of dating sims morphed into full-fledged RPGs like Persona as visual novels diverged from adventure games.
Modest_Modsoul
Living the Dreams
Member
- Oct 29, 2017
- 26,039
- Oct 19, 2024
- #6
Just finished the video & it was good & funny.
TokiMemo 3 really did damage huh...
Erigu
Member
- Nov 4, 2017
- 3,097
- Oct 19, 2024
- #7
Haven't watched the video yet, but I really didn't think the game was that bad? Can't say I agree with the notion that it was responsible for "killing the genre", anyway, seeing how said genre was already struggling before the game's release (True Love Story 3 didn't exactly do well, for instance)...
Glio
Member
- Oct 27, 2017
- 25,755
- Spain
- Oct 19, 2024
- #8
LordHuffnPuff said:
Loveplus was a huge continuing success that certainly gives the lie to the text of the OP, but maybe the video itself is less hyperbolic.
Also, Amagami was nearly a decade after Tokimemo 3 and considered a stone-cold classic…
The better argument is that the highly systemic stat-based style of dating sims morphed into full-fledged RPGs like Persona as visual novels diverged from adventure games.
Would games like "I was a Teenage Exocolonist" be considered a successor to those older dating sims?
I know that game and The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante are spiritual successors in gameplay to Princess Maker, but I don't know how much of a relationship Princess Maker had with those older dating sims.
Ceerious
Member
- Oct 27, 2017
- 2,623
- Asian
- Oct 19, 2024
- #9
I spent a lot of time playing Tokimeki Memorial 2.
Japanese dating sim is killed so that Chinese and Korean FMV dating sims can emerge in full force
LordHuffnPuff
Doctor Videogames at Allfather Productions
Verified
- Oct 25, 2017
- 2,744
- webernet
- Oct 19, 2024
- #10
Glio said:
Would games like "I was a Teenage Exocolonist" be considered a successor to those older dating sims?
I know that game and The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante are spiritual successors in gameplay to Princess Maker, but I don't know how much of a relationship Princess Maker had with those older dating sims.
I didn't play all the way to the end of Teenage Exocolonist but it felt more like a rpg+lifesim game to me where dating was possible but not required, sort of like a smaller-scope version of Citizen Sleeper. Both of those (and Roadwarden, all of which came out around the same time) seemed like they were working in the style of old physical RPG gamebooks like Fighting Fantasy or Lone Wolf. I guess it bolsters what I was saying earlier about dating sims morphing into stat-based RPGs (though Roadwarden and Citizen Sleeper didn't really have meaningful romance elements).
Exocolonist also reminded me of early otome games (which are dating sims) like Angelique, where you could in theory not really engage with romance much and focus on the universe simulation management part. Otome today has become visual novel for most intents and purposes though.
Princess Maker (at least the first two, I dunno where the franchise went) isn't really a dating sim, it's a Raising Sim. It's effectively a massively complicated Tamagachi.
shadowman16
Member
- Oct 25, 2017
- 36,584
- Oct 19, 2024
- #11
Not really aware of the series/genre outside the video in the OP, but it blows my mind that for Tokimeki Memorial 2 it took them several years to make a sequel at a time where they would get stuff like Resident Evil, Tomb Raider etc. out every year - rarely did it feel like at the time you'd have devs aloud to really take their time on a sequel, felt like lots were pushed out pretty quick... Doubly blows my mind that the whole first disc of the game is a prequel chapter that is markedly different (well, from the vid) to the rest of the game. I love it, it looks like a true refinement and improvement in gameplay over the first game.
The third game sounds like a complete joyless experience though... all the RNG would destroy any interest Id have in playing it.
Elgen98
Member
- Nov 9, 2021
- 968
- Oct 19, 2024
- #12
I don't understand how a game from 2001 could kill a genre that had one of it's greatest boons in the psp era a few years after.
Glio
Member
- Oct 27, 2017
- 25,755
- Spain
- Oct 19, 2024
- #13
LordHuffnPuff said:
I didn't play all the way to the end of Teenage Exocolonist but it felt more like a rpg+lifesim game to me where dating was possible but not required, sort of like a smaller-scope version of Citizen Sleeper. Both of those (and Roadwarden, all of which came out around the same time) seemed like they were working in the style of old physical RPG gamebooks like Fighting Fantasy or Lone Wolf. I guess it bolsters what I was saying earlier about dating sims morphing into stat-based RPGs (though Roadwarden and Citizen Sleeper didn't really have meaningful romance elements).
Exocolonist also reminded me of early otome games (which are dating sims) like Angelique, where you could in theory not really engage with romance much and focus on the universe simulation management part. Otome today has become visual novel for most intents and purposes though.
Princess Maker (at least the first two, I dunno where the franchise went) isn't really a dating sim, it's a Raising Sim. It's effectively a massively complicated Tamagachi.
Thank you, very insightful. I also liked Roadwarden and Citizen Sleeper, by the way.
You must log in or register to reply here.
